Topic: Our UK Towns & Cities

After an exhausting and often bruising involvement in the forum dealing with 'The Yellow Peril Couple' otherwise 'The honeymoon from Hell,' I thought it would make a nice change to introduce a less controversial topic.

My inspiration for this subject was the result of a front page article in the 'Chester Chronicle' that reported the close ties that the city has with HMS 'Albion' one of the UK's largest and most technologically advanced amphibious assault, command and control ships.

The vessel was docked at Liverpool's Cruise Liner Terminal, which is just over 20 miles from Chester.

The crew will spend four days in Chester during which time they will parade through the city centre exercising their right to 'freedom of the city' first granted in 2003, the last parade was during 2008.

The parade will be followed by a service in the city's ancient Cathedral where the Right Reverend Bishop of Chester will dedicate and bless the new ship's bell.
This will be followed by a civic reception in the Guildhall hosted by the Lord Mayor.

Chester has a historic maritime connection as a former port on the river Dee, which pre-dates its larger neighbouring port of Liverpool on the river Mersey.

Chester was a former important garrison outpost of the Roman Empire, its purpose not really understood, but recent speculation suggests that, being a sea-faring port, there may have been Roman ambitions to extend their rule to include Ireland.

Chester must have been regarded as important enough to be just named Chester rather than many other Roman cities such as Winchester, Chichester etc.

It is also often referred to as Deva and its born and bred citizens as, Cestrians.

Its close relationship with, and dependence upon, the river Dee is a bit of an anomoly since the source of the river is actually Welsh, rising somewhere in Gwynedd.

The the Welsh name for the 'Dee' (as with all Welsh rivers) is preceded by 'Afon,' pronounced Avon in colloquial English - hence the river 'Avon' does not actually have a name, it's just 'river' in Welsh.

The Welsh name for the river Dee, I believe, was anglicised to be pronounce as just 'D' because the correct Welsh name, which starts with the letter D, is then continued dyfrdwy, an almost impossible pronunciation for English speakers and occasional Welsh speakers alike.

The Romans also had many local subsidiary sites extending into north east Wales where they mined lead and kept the local inhabitants subdued, several former sites are still discernable.

During the mid-1700's the renowned composer George F Handel, was en-route to Ireland for the premiere of his world-famous Oratorio, 'The Messiah.'

He lodged at an inn situated in Northgate street (where it still exists) awaiting a vessel to take him to Ireland.

Northgate street is quite close to the Cathedral whose choir and soloists Handel used to rehearse the Messiah, but he (and they) had a language difficulty, he speaking in broken English with a gutteral German accent and they, presumably, with a Cheshire (or Chester) dialect, I am given to understand the session ended in disappointment and frustration.

It is however frequently and succesfully performed there and thus has the distinction of being the first place of its (unofficial) public airing which, appropriately, given its religious inspiration, is a place of public worship.

The Cathedral is a lovely old building constructed of local red sandstone, whose modern bell-tower is separate from the Cathedral as in Pisa, Italy.
Many of the other significant buildings use the same stone and include the ancient city walls that have five 'gateways.'

Eastgate, Northgate, Newgate, Watergate and Peppergate all existing, and having pedestrian access, some in near original condition except Peppergate which is a re-construction and near a former amphitheatre which lay undiscovered, until relatively recent times, the site was utilised as a public park area during the time that I lived there.

The inner road here, originally one of two main roads through the city centre, approached from the A41 and A51, took an unusual 180' bend in order to avoid 'the mini-park' (site of the amphitheatre) you can imagine the horrendous traffic jams caused by motorists returning from days out at weekends, all having to cross the Grosvenor Bridge which adjoins the racecourse and which (then) was one of only three road traffic bridges that crossed the Dee from Chester to the Irish sea.

It is no longer possible to circumnavigate the entire length of the walls due to modern development and an inner dual-carriageway, but what is still available is ancient and compelling with super views of the surrounding countryside including the Clwydian range of nearby Wales.

Along Eastgate Street, or via principalis in Roman times, is the most photographed 'gate' which is surmounted with a magnificent clock that is reputed to be second only in popular recognition to London's St Stephen's bell-Tower and clock, better known as 'Big Ben.

Chester's clock and ornate wrought iron frame was the work of a nearby clockmaker of Whitchurch, in neighbouring Shropshire, to celebrate Queen Victoria's reign.

Boats still ply the river terminating at the weir and the Old Dee Bridge (single carriageway) where, just beyond, is Chester's famous racecourse, 'The Roodee' and within stone's throw of the entrance to Eaton Hall, Country seat of the richest man in the UK, Gerald Cavendish Grosvenor, His Grace, Duke of Westminster, and family.

The city is world famous and hosts thousands of overseas visitors each year who flock there to view its antiquities and unique features such as 'The Rows' - double decked rows of shops existing in Bridge street, Watergate street and Eastgate street and an ancient Roman bath within one of the Bridge street row shops.
The black and white Tudor facades, many of them original, abound and are a photographer's Utopia.

I hope that this topic will attract residents and enthusiasts of other cities or towns with a similar history and/or uniqueness and interest to other members, not necessarily nautical, but having some fascination for others and I particularly look forward to contributions from the city of York, for which I hold particular affection and of course, Whitby of which I have similar regard having once played the organ in St Mary's Church atop the hill, by invitation.

With best wishes and regards to all.,

Gordon Rhys-Williams,

Gordon, I live in Ormskirk and the Parish Church is one of only three in the country to have both a tower and a steeple, and is unique in having them both at the same end! It is 12th century Norman with the steeple added in the 15th century and the tower added in the 16th century to house four bells from Burscough Priory after the Dissolution in 1536. Since then the best the residents have come up with was in 2000 when we added outside lighting Sorry I can't add photographs, I will try at the weekend with help from my OH. Carol

Hi Gordon.
I was disapointed HMS ALBION was not open to the public during her visit.
Most RN visits are.
JC

QUOTE:

Gordon, I live in Ormskirk and the Parish Church is one of only three in the country to have both a tower and a steeple, and is unique in having them both at the same end! It is 12th century Norman with the steeple added in the 15th century and the tower added in the 16th century to house four bells from Burscough Priory after the Dissolution in 1536. Since then the best the residents have come up with was in 2000 when we added outside lighting Sorry I can't add photographs, I will try at the weekend with help from my OH. Carol

Hi Guy

Thanks for the reply - mind you I had to consult my profile of posts started by me as I did not get the, 'someone has responed to your post' message from Cruise News.

I do recall a story of a similar anomaly where two sisters decided to pay for either a tower or steeple to be erected at their beloved church.

The story goes that, because they could not agree on one adornment, both had to be built.

Obtaining a 'faculty' for permission to effect the work must have been easier in that Diocese than up here in St Asaph where you needed one from the 'powers that be' for screwing anything to the wall even.

I may be confusing it with another church in Preston, through which town I frequently had cause to pass when I was a young HGV driver in the days before the motorways. I remember the church, its tower and steeple being visible from the road.

Talking of Motorways, I go that far back that I was actually driving cement carrying lorries during their construction in which I remember delivering bulk cement to the M6 in Staffordshire, the notorious Thelwall viaduct, the (then) new dam near Bala in north Wales and the Wylfa Poswer station on Anglesey.

Even further back, on flat-back waggons, and the perilous wintry ascent of Shap fell, with the prospect of spending the night in 'The Jungle Cafe' whilst the road was cleared of snow, long before the era of the motorways.

The 'Jungle' was a nationally famous transport drivers haven together with the old 'Blue Boar' now swallowed up by the M1.
Ah! happy days.

The organ, which I played for 32 years, was in a 12th century
(1182) church on the outskirts of Wrexham.
The organ was somewhat younger, originally built in 1902, but having undergone several 'make-overs.'
It is now relegated to a corner at the back of the church, to make way for utilising the east end, (formerly occupied by the organ) as a 'chapel' with its own altar.
The Phillistines who authorised the move failed to realise that, being in this location, when the congregation stood-up, they completely obstructed the organist's view of the choir and clergy plus conductors of visiting choirs.

Nice to hear from you Guy and do drop in on any of my regular 'contributions' to the forum.

With regards and best wishes.
Gordon (Rhys-Williams)

QUOTE:

Hi Gordon.
I was disapointed HMS ALBION was not open to the public during her visit.
Most RN visits are.
JC

Hi JC

Did you notice that I made specific reference to Liverpool's CRUISE TERMINAL.

Sorry you didn't get an onboard visit of the Albion, perhaps the security thought that there may be a branch of the Taliban lurking in St George's.

I continue to support the argument in favour of the inclusion of Liverpool as a turn-around cruise arrival and departure venue, as is its due.

My personal asssociation, with Liverpool and its docks in particular, go back to the early fifties when, as a young lorry driver, I was frequntly sent there with loads of metal window frames, manufactured in Chester, for destinations round the world.

The former dock railway was still operating then and, being just after the end of WWII, the names of the docks had been removed and replaced with a series of numbers for security reasons.

Now a depressing and a sad pale sight which belies its former glory
and the important part it played in the nation's survival during those dark days of yesteryear when both docks and city were the target of relentless bombing by the nazi's.

I share two other connections, one being the magnificent Anglican Cathedral, where a business colleague was a member of the choir, when Noel Rawsthorne was organist (and what an organ!) when I was invited to sit near to Noel during a broadcast by the BBC.
Overlooking the balcony, up in the organ loft, induced a feeling of vertigo looking down on the choir - the organist's communication was by means of closed circuit television which replaced the usual rear view mirror.

My other (life-saving) experience was back in 2003 in the Walton Neurosurgical Centre in Fazakerley, where a non-malignent brain tumour was successfully removed by a clever surgeon thus prompting me for ever after in describing my salvation as attributable to 'Scouser's, the life-savers.'

Best regards to you both
Gordon.

Gordon I read your story with great interest I love history, and like to be reminded of the rich tapestry of history we have in this country . It is such a shame our children are no longer taught this in schools, it is always a pleasure to be involved when it is in your town also a great honour.
In Falmouth a few years ago we celebrated the 200Th centenary of Lord Nelson, and the enactment of the Captain who landed here with news of Nelson's victory and death, who then took coach to London with the news. Princess Anne attended and I was lucky enough to be invited , as I was a councillor for Falmouth.
Falmouth also had the Cutty Sark tea clipper for years she used to trade between Australia and England, and set records for her speed, before she was taken to Greenwich for restoration., we also had the first mail ships called the Falmouth Packet ships they used to sail from here before becoming unviable.
I am very proud of my home town with it's rich Maritime History as you must be Gordon!

Hi Gordon, as far as I am aware there are only two other Churches with both a tower and steeple. One is at Purton and the other at Wanborough both in Wiltshire. The tale of the two sisters is accredited to Ormskirk St Peter and St Paul, but lovely as it is, it's just a legend and not fact. Regards Carol

QUOTE:

Gordon I read your story with great interest I love history, and like to be reminded of the rich tapestry of history we have in this country . It is such a shame our children are no longer taught this in schools, it is always a pleasure to be involved when it is in your town also a great honour.
In Falmouth a few years ago we celebrated the 200Th centenary of Lord Nelson, and the enactment of the Captain who landed here with news of Nelson's victory and death, who then took coach to London with the news. Princess Anne attended and I was lucky enough to be invited , as I was a councillor for Falmouth.
Falmouth also had the Cutty Sark tea clipper for years she used to trade between Australia and England, and set records for her speed, before she was taken to Greenwich for restoration., we also had the first mail ships called the Falmouth Packet ships they used to sail from here before becoming unviable.
I am very proud of my home town with it's rich Maritime History as you must be Gordon!

Dear Carol (Guy of Ormskirk)

Nice to hear from you Carol and your myth-busting reference to the 'at odds with each other' sisters.

The Church, whose tower and steeple I recalled seeing during my HGV days, must have been the one that you refer to, as, refreshing my memory from former routes up north, Ormskirk of course is on the A59 leading to Preston that we would have used in those days, and which I confused with Preston.

It seems that pairs of sisters, more often than not spinsters, form the plot of many a good story.
In not too far away Llangollen, there is some sort of story associated with two such sisters who lived in a large manor house there, which still exists, but I am not conversant with the story.

In my old parish of Buckley, we had a similar pair who were devoted to the beautiful parish Church of St Matthew, to which one of the sisters bequethed her home following her death.

The church was built at the expense of the local famous Glynne and Gladstone family, at least one of whom was a clergyman, the other of course, a former Prime Minister.

The original building, one of several in the locality, designed by a local (Chester) Architect, had a tall slender spire that was in proportion to the nave, and early photographs reveal what a beautiful building built of cream sandstone it was.

In later years it was found necessary to dismantle the beautiful spire and replace it with a castellated tower in order to accommodate a peal of eight bells, which are rung by the resident team each Sunday, and also by visiting camponologists from far and wide.

The Church, whilst still of magnificent appearance, is not quite as magnificent as the designer intended following modiication, which as originally designed, could be best compared to Winchester, in minature, Oh! and it also has a magnificent pipe organ upon which I cut my musical teeth.

Another benefit of the aforementioned spinster ladie's bequest, was that the blackened stonework, stained by former industrial activity, was sand-blasted and restored to its true colour - but not to everyone's appreciation.

Ormskirk got a mention on the TV, at the Crufts dog show, last night (Saturday) when an Akita won the best in its class.
I will be watching 'Best in Show' tonight for the overall winner.

Yours most Sincerely

Gordon Rhys

Maybe as Gordon has done such a good job on Chester we should all include a little something about the town from which we come / inhabit.

Many places have a few hidden historical facts or gems that are overlooked and as was said this would make a happy and non controversial topic.

In this vein:
Stalybridge
is a small town in the north-west of England. Lying at the foothills of the Pennines, which are also known as the backbone of Britain, 8 miles east of Manchester.

Stalybridge is famous for several things....the most spectacular one being the song "It's a Long Way to Tipperary", which was written in the town by Jack Judge And not forgetting our very own world famous Stalybridge Brass Band, which is the oldest civilian Brass Band in the World!

Beatrix Potter's family came from Stalybridge, and lived in an area known as Castlehall. Beatrix was born in London but her mother Helen Leech came from Stalybridge and her parents lived at Gorse Hall until 1884

The artist L.S.Lowry lived at Stalybridge Road, Mottram,Stalybridge from 1948 until his death in 1976Also the the film 'Yanks' starring Richard Gere and Vanessa Regrave was filmed in Stalybridge in the '70's

Stalybridge is mentioned twice in the Guinness Book of Records - for having the shortest named pub in Britain, namely 'The Q Inn' and the longest named pub in Britain, namely 'The Old Thirteenth Cheshire Astley Volunteer Rifleman Corps Inn

Lancashire dialect poet Samuel Laycock lived an worked in Stalybridge and wrote the poem "Boltons Yard" about some houses in the Castle Hall area (These were demolished in the 1960's)

At number one, i' Bowton's yard, mi gronny keeps a scoo, But hasn't mony scholars yet, hoo's only one or two; They sen the'owd woman's rather cross, - well, well, it may be so; Aw know hoo box'd me rarely once, an' pood mi ears an'o

At number two lives widow Burns - hoo weshes clooas for folk; Their Billy, that's her son, gets jobs at wheelin' coke; They sen hoo coarts wi' Sam-o'-Neds, 'at lives at number three; It may be so, aw conno tell, it matters nowt to me

At number three, reet facin' th' pump, Ned Grimshaw keeps a shop; He's Eccles-cakes, an' gingerbread, an' treacle beer, an' pop; He sells oat-cakes, an'o, does Ned he boath soft an' hard; An' everybody buys off him 'at lives i' Bowton's Yard

At number four Jack Blunderick lives; he goes to th' mill an' wayves; An' then, at th' week-end when he's time, he pows a bit an' shaves; He's badly off, is Jack , poor lad; he's rayther lawm, they sen, An' his childer keep him deawn a bit - aw think they'n nine or ten

(If required I can translate this, as it's how my Grandmother used to talk and my daughter is nearly as broad)

About the same area in 1844 Frederick Engels wrote
"On first entering the town the visitor sees congested rows of old, grimy and dilapidated cottages.... most of the streets run in wild confusion up, down and across the hill sides. Since so many of the houses are built on slopes it is inevitable that many of the rooms on the ground floor are semi basements. It may well be imagined what a vast number of courst, back passages and blind alleys have been created as a result of this wholly unplanned method of building .... of this disgustingly filthy town"

QUOTE:

Gordon I read your story with great interest I love history, and like to be reminded of the rich tapestry of history we have in this country . It is such a shame our children are no longer taught this in schools, it is always a pleasure to be involved when it is in your town also a great honour.
In Falmouth a few years ago we celebrated the 200Th centenary of Lord Nelson, and the enactment of the Captain who landed here with news of Nelson's victory and death, who then took coach to London with the news. Princess Anne attended and I was lucky enough to be invited , as I was a councillor for Falmouth.
Falmouth also had the Cutty Sark tea clipper for years she used to trade between Australia and England, and set records for her speed, before she was taken to Greenwich for restoration., we also had the first mail ships called the Falmouth Packet ships they used to sail from here before becoming unviable.
I am very proud of my home town with it's rich Maritime History as you must be Gordon!

Dear Cornish Girl - Falmouth

I can almost smell the salty Falmouth sea air as I read your reply.

Where I live, its more a mixture of mountain air wafting from the Clwydian Range AONB, (Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty) mountains, as it meets the sea breezes from Liverpool Bay and the Irish Sea, as it makes its way up the River Dee until both winds conjoin and result in, what former Prime Minister W E Gladstone, in describing Buckley 'Commons' as being, "the healtiest place in Britain," and who would argue with the 'GOM.'

I am doubly interested in reading your story of Falmouth's bi-centenary celebration to mark the Battle of Trafalgar, 1805 - 2005, since my birthday falls on the 21st October, Trafalgar Day, and date of the death of Admiral Lord Nelson during that battle in 1805.

The only occasion that I remember attending (unplanned) a Trafalgar Day Parade, was in Hereford Cathedral where me and Mrs GRW, popped-in to have a look around - during which, the building quickly filled with lots of uniformed naval types and cadets from a nearby unit.

We enjoyed a lovely service, greatly appreciated by me as a one time church organist, and by us both, as inbred Welsh vocalists, thus allowing us to burst forth loudly in our respective baritone and contralto voices 'midst a large and enthusiastic amateur choir.

Although being north Welsh by birth and parentage, like many from our locality during our teens, we were dependent on nearby Chester for employment, as a result of which, my connection with the City was established.

I served my apprenticeship in the motor trade there until national service - courted my wife-to-be, who worked as a nurse at the nearby De-Havilland Aircraft factory during the age of the 'Comet,' 'Vampire & Venom' aircraft - now British Aerospace, makers of the Aerobus wings.

We married in 1956 and set up home in a 2 bedroom flat, provided by my motor trade employer, and in 1958 were blessed with the arrival of a son Paul who, being born in the (then) maternity and geriatric hospital in Chester, insists that having been born there, he is a 'Cestrian' and English, not Welsh; with a surname of Rhys Williams he stands no chance.

Our flat was in Pepper Street, within the city walls, Pepper Street now exists in name only as most of the buildings (including our first home of married life) were demolished to make way for the prestigious 'Grosvenor Shopping Precinct.'

On Sunday mornings at Pepper Street, we could hear the bells of the Cathedral and the congregational singing from a Chapel in adjoining Newgate Street.

Officially Chester is not my home diocese, although I have attended, with my choir, many festivals at the Cathedral which is nearer to us than our diocese of St Asaph, in Denbighshire, where the legal instrument was signed establishing the Anglican Church in Wales and its governance by the Church of England discontinued.

St Asaph is little more than a large parish church but despite the existence of a Cathedral and its Bishop, and during a recent period, also Archbishop of Wales, it is not recognised as having City status; but that is what it is, the smallest Cathedral City in Wales if not the UK.

We do not have the same 'icons' as neighbouring Cheshire, although we do have the occasional international film stars, actors, poets, international male and female vocalists and opera ingers, (mostly from Swansea) (although Bryn Terfel-Jones is north Welsh)and of course, Doctor Who.

Cheshire, on the other hand, have an instantly recognisable Icon, formerly built in Crewe, Rolls-Royce motor cars, alas no longer built at Crewe and, even more alas, no longer British, but we still have Bentley Motors, which used to be the 'badge engineered' poor mans Rolls, but in every other respect, as the 'Scousers' would describe it, "Same Horse, different jockey," and HM The Queen owns one.

Nice to read your reply, thank you.

With kindest regards and best wishes

Gordon