Topic: Scooters at sea: It's a question of ship-mobility...

O please don't let them on ships. They are a nightmare on the roads as it is. Surely the ships couldn't accomadate them. I forsee some nasty accidents. By the way i will probley need one myself soon and i'm going to get one if i need it. Won't take it on board though

QUOTE:

I know this will cause an uproar but I agree with the above. Mobility scooters are a complete nuisance on cruise ships. I don't care if it is "politically incorrect" but someone has to call a halt to the "we are entitled to go anywhere" brigade. For this reason I will not go on any cruise that starts in the UK as they are all inundated with mobility scooters. Cruise ships are not suited to these dreadful machines which unfortunately are often operated by totally selfish people.
I shall now retire to put my steel helmet on!

Sorry to shatter your dreams matey, but it may come as a shock to you to learn that the UK does not hold a monopoly on scooters !!
Try boarding a ship in the USA, there are even more scooters here !!! the same goes for a lot of other boarding ports as well. I am happy to see ALL people enjoy a cruise, my only reservation is on the number of disabled people on a ship at any one time. If a serious situation arose on board ship ( fire flooding etc ) it would be very hard to ensure the safety of large numbers of people who need help to move quickly, you need 2 able bodied people per disabled person to provide mobility, and in a serious situation I know from experience that this number of people would be hard to find, panic would make a lot of passengers who are able bodied helpless, unable to offer assistance to disabled or injured people and indeed may need help themselves. I have seen normally sensible people lose it, and flap around like headless chickens, or just wander around like zombies when a serious problem happens without warning. In reality VERY few people would be able to react helpfully In this situation, large numbers of disabled people would be in real danger.
For this reason alone, I believe that the number of disabled passengers on board should be restricted as they are on planes. I am thankfully able bodied myself, but even if I were disabled, I would still suggest that disabled passenger numbers be restricted.

No disrespect to people who are genuinely disabled, but a heluvalot of relatively young people now seem to use mobility scooters as a convenience. You see a lot of people on the pavements of South London now who look as if their only disability is being too fat to walk any distance! A mobility scooter (obesity buggy!) is the last thing they need.

Several times on holiday, I've seen people being wheeled to the plane in England, but on their feet fighting to get their luggage off the carousel at the destination.

And don't get me started on abuse of disabled parking bays!

QUOTE:

I know this will cause an uproar but I agree with the above. Mobility scooters are a complete nuisance on cruise ships. I don't care if it is "politically incorrect" but someone has to call a halt to the "we are entitled to go anywhere" brigade. For this reason I will not go on any cruise that starts in the UK as they are all inundated with mobility scooters. Cruise ships are not suited to these dreadful machines which unfortunately are often operated by totally selfish people.
I shall now retire to put my steel helmet on!

It's not a tin hat you want chum, its protection for your backside that deserves a good kicking.

What a crass and insensitive statement to come out with.

You obviously are able-bodied and have no idea what it is like to be disabled - you have little knowledge of the disastrous consequences of disability on your 'normal' lifestyle as it creeps up on you, like a thief in the night, and where once you were mobile - now you are dependent upon others in order to maintain a quasi normality.

You are not alone in your selfish, insensitive and boorish attitude and I have discovered that it is futile in trying to convert you, and your like who hold similar views, into consideration for others, particularly less fortunate others.

Its a pity about wheelchair users causing inconvenience at lifts, but have you ever tried manipulating one in and out of them - better still, why don't you use the stairs occasionally, I wish I could.

There is only one thing certain in this life - Death, and remember you have no fore knowledge of what is waiting round the next corner for you, good health is not guaranteed, you may yet find yours compromised over time and live to regret your uncharitable remarks.

Gordon R

QUOTE:

It's not a tin hat you want chum, its protection for your backside that deserves a good kicking.

What a crass and insensitive statement to come out with.

You obviously are able-bodied and have no idea what it is like to be disabled - you have little knowledge of the disastrous consequences of disability on your 'normal' lifestyle as it creeps up on you, like a thief in the night, and where once you were mobile - now you are dependent upon others in order to maintain a quasi normality.

You are not alone in your selfish, insensitive and boorish attitude and I have discovered that it is futile in trying to convert you, and your like who hold similar views, into consideration for others, particularly less fortunate others.

Its a pity about wheelchair users causing inconvenience at lifts, but have you ever tried manipulating one in and out of them - better still, why don't you use the stairs occasionally, I wish I could.

There is only one thing certain in this life - Death, and remember you have no fore knowledge of what is waiting round the next corner for you, good health is not guaranteed, you may yet find yours compromised over time and live to regret your uncharitable remarks.

Gordon R

Hi Gordon
That's the most poignant post you have ever put on here,and well said too.
You forgot the other certainty in life,,,Taxes.
PS,has the issuing of General Rules subdued you,they have me?
JC

QUOTE:

Have been on a ship where the acccomodation decks were cluttered with buggies, walkers, mobility scooters and the occasional childs scooter and I would hate to know what would happen in the event of an emergency!

I thought if you needed a walking aid you had to book a disabled cabin so as to be able to store it correctly and safely overnight?

Or maybe ship builders just need to give a little extra cabin space as most prams and mobility scooters are usually able to fit in a space 1.2m long and .65m wide (a total of .78m²) surely this couldn't be that hard to find?( The base area of a walk in wardrobe with an extra wardrobe provided for full length items?)

Source info is from the Department for Transport website ~ the people who say how big spaces on buses and trains need to be. The full research paper is available at: http://www.dft.gov.uk/transportforyo...chairs1181.pdf

It has the average sizes of both adult and child mobility aids

What would happen in an emergency would probably not concern you (assuming that you are able-bodied) you probably would be among the first to the lifeboats.

The problem would be for the disabled who would not be able to 'leg-it' with the 'women and children first?' and probably would get trampled underfoot in the rush.

Disability adapted cabins have sufficient space to accomodate wheelchairs, sometimes requiring them to be folded, but selection of such cabins may be selfishly specified by able-bodied passengers who may construe them to have a larger configuration - thus reducing the availability of them to genuine disabled passengers.

There is no need to complicate matters by consulting the Ministry of whatsit - referred to in your chapter & verse statement - if you are genuine, the cruise line ask you to declare your particular disability, including diabetes or special diet requirements and, after doing so, will ask you to complete a questionnaire which includes dimensions of wheelchairs folded and unfolded - I obtained mine from the user handbook which accompanied my wheelchair.

In response to those critics who say that wheelchair users, particularly powered scooters, creep silently upon them at high speed and scant regard, I would say that the maximum speed attainable (by scooters) is governed, and in the case of self-propelled, or assisted wheelchairs, about 5 mph is round about average, unless you are a disabled olympic gold medal winner of that event like Dame Kelly Holmes!

Its so nice to be able to enjoy all the pleasures of cruising whilst still active which, in my case, was a few years ago now but even so, I do enjoy a cruise especially just for being on the ship and able to enjoy the fantastic cuisine and entertainment.

Returning to 'boy-racers' not giving warning of approach, it is my experience that this is an almost impossible task when approaching a collection of guests, gathered in groups, who insist upon obstructing the free passage of others as they converse loudly with each other, causing them to be impervious of the presence of others who, of course, are intent upon disrupting their conversation in order to (say) gain access to the restaurant.

It takes all sorts I suppose.
Cheers
Gordon (Rhys-Williams)

Disability adapted cabins have sufficient space to accomodate wheelchairs, sometimes requiring them to be folded, but selection of such cabins may be selfishly specified by able-bodied passengers who may construe them to have a larger configuration - thus reducing the availability of them to genuine disabled passengers.

My understanding is that any able-bodied passengers booking a disability adapted cabin do so on the understanding that they will have to accept a change of cabins if a disabled persons wants to book it.

I agree it is fine that scooters are allowed, as long as overall numbers are monitored to ensure it doesn't impact on overall safety. I recall reading Fred Olsen's guidelines on this which quite specifically state what the capacity of their ships are for wheelchairs and scooters. From memory I believe they allow one wheelchair per disabled cabin plus a number of additional wheelchairs per ship. I think there may be maritime laws restricting numbers?

It would also help if cruise lines could check that people were able to use the scooters and not just hiring them at the port for the first time without any instruction on usage. I met a chap in a lift on a scooter on a recent cruise who had no idea how to use the thing and couldn't even differentiate between forward and reverse. In these circumstances I think a wheelchair and an accompanying individual would have been preferrable. A number of us had our toes run over in the confined space as he tried to reverse (unsuccessfully using a forward gear and much turning of the steering wheel despite only needing to go straight backwards) out of the lift. Had we been anywhere other than a lift with the doorway blocked we would have got out of the way. I would like to see some kind of safe operating test on these before they are used in public situations (particularly in lifts).

QUOTE:

O please don't let them on ships. They are a nightmare on the roads as it is. Surely the ships couldn't accomadate them. I forsee some nasty accidents. By the way i will probley need one myself soon and i'm going to get one if i need it. Won't take it on board though

Dear Aloise

If you will soon need a disability 'scooter' but would not take it on board - how would you get around the ship if you are truly disabled?

Its alright saying 'ban them from the ship' if you are able-bodied and all that the absence of disability buggys means to you is an inconvenience.
I do however share your apprehension of motorised scooters and the impracticality of their use on cruise ships - the only answer being to restrict the use to self-propelled or assisted wheelchairs which are more easily stored in cabins.

To the user it is an essential part of living, a damn nuisance as I very well know, but the only option to permanent confinement to 24 hours indoors at home.

The responsibility lies with the cruise company, railway, bus company, public buildings, to provide safe and negotiable means of access for those unable to climb steps/stairs who are confined to the use of disability aids.

The problem seems to have increased out of all proportion over recent years and some local authorities have been abysmally slow in introducing dropped kerbs and entrance ramps to public buildings, even Law Courts, which invariably require climbing a steep flight of ornamental Romanesque triumphal message-implied grand entrance to the seat of justice.

The time has surely come for all and sundry to realise that disability, in its many (sometimes unrecognisable) forms is an unwelcome and increasing phenomenon, not particularly confined to the elderly but often the young, and the need is to get at the source of the problem and not to expect that those afflicted are only a temporary nuisance which will eventually go away and be less of a nuisance to those still enjoying the best of health.

Once, as a County Councillor, I had the need to complain to a local town authority of their ineptitude in siting a disability toilet whose entrance was at the lower slope and required access via a set of five concrete steps and a handrail, whilst the entrance for normal users faced the upper slope which entrance was on the flat.

That situation, to the best of my knowledge, still prevails and although I am reluctant to disclose the name of the town in north Wales, ironically it is referred to as 'The Lourdes of Wales.'

Unlike its namesake, there are no discarded walking sticks outside the particular toilet block to which I refer.

Regards
Gordon (Rhys-Williams)

Well done Gordon and thank you,you have summed the whole issue up so very well, as the wife of a disabled person I know only too well all the pitfalls of wheelchairs and scooters, but they are a godsend, and when the disabled person is able to travel with these conveniences, it means their partner is able to travel with them also. Why should travel be restricted to the able bodied only? It would do some of these ill informed people to be disabled just for a day, then perhaps they would realise just how lucky they are.

Well said Gordon and Wen. Fortunately at present I am 'able bodied' and realise just how lucky I am.

Some years ago I had responsibility for Disability in the Workplace (5,000+ employees) and fortunately attended a very powerful 'Disability Awareness' course run by a super chap, who was a wheelchair user. He challenged our perceptions and misconceptions hard!

Thankfully, I can appreciate some of the difficulties you must face and wholeheartedly support your right to mobility, on land or ship.

Regards, Lizzie.