Topic: My thoughts on this contentious matter

QUOTE:

i agree with majority here, lets have an all encompassing cruise price, i pay grads upfront and automatically consider it part of the price. i do question bradbury, he may want to tip the waiter etc but not the engine hand, a ships is the sum of all parts and not just the front facing staff. How do we get the cruise companies to change?

I am not saying I dont want to tip the engine hand - what I am saying is that on principle alone - if they are telling me that $3.50 of my automatic gratuities are going to the waiter, then I expect them to go to the waiter, not every Tom Dick and Harry! I dont like being mislead nor fooled. By the way he is a she!

Let us assume that you currently pay the recommended "gratuities". If this sum was rolled up into the cruise price, I think most people here would still pay some genuine gratuity to the staff, although maybe not as much as you do now, but would you not therefore end up paying more than you do now?
So, is this really such a good move?
I have heard it said that the restaurant waiters tip the galley staff so they can get served without delay, so maybe this is how it gets distributed. Not sure if this is true and wonder if anything filters down to the guy that peels the potatoes.
Brian

I think you're right Brian, people 'here' with the emphasis on 'here' would probably end up paying a bit more, but there's a whole gang out 'there' who pay little or nothing at all. The last night of cruise is something I have never felt totally at home with in all my years of cruising, the handing over of envelopes filled with dollar bills, pound notes or vouchers. It always feels uncomfortable at the end of the meal, the room filled with expectancy, with waiters afraid to leave their station, section waiters, wine waiters, Maître De all lurking nearby just in case you might be tempted to make a run for it. It never feels like an honest gesture, more a duty bound end of cruise task. As for additional tipping, I for one would never feel obligated if the system was in place, but where I did give extra, even a small token, it would be a heartfelt gesture rather than a suggested instruction........Wilba

Exactly Wilba, tipping should be because you want to, not have to. A 'service charge' built into the price of the cruise would mean that the gifts given to the crew members would be a thank you, not a duty, and both sides would feel better about it. Let's keep this ball in the air. Judith

“Neil, I do agree with you (and Wilba) in the main, PROVIDING the cruise companies just quote a total cost. If it were to state this includes compulsory gratuities of £xxx, this is where it would rankle with me. I would rather not know and just be informed this is the total cost of the cruise and have it stated that no tipping is encouraged.
I really do not like being told how much to tip. I do not like being told whom to tip. I do tip but I please myself whom and how much. Sometimes I see a fairer way of distributing my tips, particularly where my children are concerned.”


This is the contentious bit and it is we, the British, in the main who have the biggest problem coming to terms with it. I appreciate all that you say and whilst the system remains as it is there will always be conflict.

What we are advocating is:
1) The staff are paid a reasonable wage.
2) That this wage must come from cruise fares
3) The method of finding this money by the cruise line can be by various means like increasing the cruise fare or adding in a Service Charge but not by expecting it to be made up by passengers giving the size of gratuity, which is a misnomer as it stands, that they currently expect.
4) We do not object to giving, where warranted, a small personal amount to someone who has exceeded that which was expected but it should be at our discretion and a gratuity in the pure sense of the word and not by the cruise lines implied or suggested wording.
Now, maybe, we can fall even further in line with our thinking if these suggestions were applied. The main problem as we see it is that where there is a loop-hole irresponsible people will use it and with the current system the loop-hole allows many just opt out of paying anything thus leaving the staff underpaid, other passengers making up the shortfall or both which is a ridiculous if not shameful situation.

Lets make the whole thing above board, fair and bullet-proof. ……..Neil

I am in agreement with your thoughts on this, Neil, but we live in an international world where concepts of "tipping" vary from country to country. In North America a tip of at least 15% is expected whereas in Japan any tip offered is often considered an insult. In the UK we are somewhere in between.
Just out of interest who would normally tip or definitely not tip the following people

Cabin steward
Main restaurant waiter
Self service restaurant waiters
Speciality (i.e. pay) restaurant waiters
Head waiter/maitre d'
Bar waiters
Childrens club supervisors
Cruise Director
Cruise entertainment staff
Entertainers
Captain

All of the above you may come into contact in one form or other, some you will tip and others you will not.
Is the reason that you choose not to tip certain people is that your perception is that they are adequately payed anyway but how do you know this and if you experts on here don't know, how can you expect a new cruiser to know?
Brian

I would like to challenge Neil's three premises:

QUOTE:

Firstly gratuities or tips are not given for service over and above the norm they are given as part of parcel of the expected cruise cost. …… Neil

A highly subjective view. By definition a 'tip' or 'gratuity' is a gift. Gifts cannot be considered part of the cost unless the giver so wishes. No one should tell another person they must give a gift.

QUOTE:

Secondly it has become an established fact that crew members rely on the tips that they receive to make up the majority of a highly insubstantial basic wage.…… Neil

I'm always a bit sceptical of people quoting 'established facts'. First, I'm not sure it's for customers to make up companies' employees' wages. Imagine buying a southeast Asian car only to be asked for a contribution towards the employees' wages on the grounds that the company doesn't pay them much! Secondly, I wouldn't presume to judge whether crew members rely on tips. My daughter works for an outdoor adventure company; she gets full board and lodgings, and hardly any wages.

QUOTE:

And lastly it benefits the cruise lines to expect us to pay the gratuities for many financial and possibly reprehensible reasons. …… Neil

It is a basic principle of business that the buyer pays as little as possible whilst the seller charges as much as possible. If tipping is in the interest of cruise lines then I doubt it is in the interest of customers!

The American based cruise lines need to include the tips in the base price of their cruises AND their alcoholic beverages and present their policies as thus: Your holiday will now cost you X amount of pounds per person (depending on grade of cabin selected), no need to tip. Y is the price of your spirit(s) or drink(s) of choice. period. No mention of a 15% service add on or anything of the like. No mention of the need to tip out staff at the end of the cruise. That's it. Like it or lump it. It's the only logical solution that would really balance matters out in the best interets of fairness from the (obviously) various points of view manifested at large throughout this forum (and site).

QUOTE:

The American based cruise lines need to include the tips in the base price of their cruises AND their alcoholic beverages and present their policies as thus: Your holiday will now cost you X amount of pounds per person (depending on grade of cabin selected), no need to tip. Y is the price of your spirit(s) or drink(s) of choice. period. No mention of a 15% service add on or anything of the like. No mention of the need to tip out staff at the end of the cruise. That's it. Like it or lump it. It's the only logical solution that would really balance matters out in the best interets of fairness from the (obviously) various points of view manifested at large throughout this forum (and site).

I think including drinks price in ALL cruises is step too far. You would have a new argument start from people who drink very little, or not at all, subsidising the drink till you drop crowd. I personally think this drinks price issue is a bit of a flash in the pan, a bit like petrol prices, we all moan like hell about it until we get used to it, and then accept it as the norm....Wilba

Assuming that service charge had been included in the price I'd paid for the cruise, I'd tip Cabin Steward, Waiter and Busboy, wine waiter (we drink a lot), favourite barman and bar waiters and any other staff who have been particularly helpful. This does not have to be a huge amount of money, it is a gift to show appreciation. Other people will, of course, have a different opinion. Judith