Topic: Getting a Grip on Cruise Ship Pollution

Hi all
I thought this thread was about Environmental Pollution.
Not a soapbox for Climate Change deniers
Here's 2 photos of my home town,i imagine the dinosaur factory owners at the time used the same arguments as those deniers now,cost to business,unemployment,threats to wealth creation etc.
Why do we have to destroy the Worlds beauty in Alaska,Amazon the Worlds Oceans just for our greedy overconsumption
Thank god we keep moving forward, if not for our sake but our kids.
2 photos then + now,same area.
Pity cant get a cruise ship through those locks into River Mersey
JC

QUOTE:

Hi all
I thought this thread was about Environmental Pollution.
Not a soapbox for Climate Change deniers
Here's 2 photos of my home town,i imagine the dinosaur factory owners at the time used the same arguments as those deniers now,cost to business,unemployment,threats to wealth creation etc.
Why do we have to destroy the Worlds beauty in Alaska,Amazon the Worlds Oceans just for our greedy overconsumption
Thank god we keep moving forward, if not for our sake but our kids.
2 photos then + now,same area.
Pity cant get a cruise ship through those locks into River Mersey
JC

If not for the industrial revolution and technological developments of past years you would not have your cruise ships today, or the locks to navigate into the Mersey.

QUOTE:

If not for the industrial revolution and technological developments of past years you would not have your cruise ships today, or the locks to navigate into the Mersey.

Hi
I cant understand your point?
Are you saying we should not have cleaned up industry,polluting atmosphere + waterways,causing all kinds of illnesses.
I worked nearly all my life in the Chemical industry + i would rather work in it now than 32yrs ago when i started.
I said in my post its a good job we move forward,should we move backwards?
Your post is a statement of the obvious,but i am at a loss to what it adds to the debate on pollution today.
JC

There was a fabulous interview by John Humphries on the Radio 4 today programme this morning, the interviewee (name escapes me) but it was a refreshing perspective from the scientific community, "We can't expect to put a trillion tonnes of CO2 into the atmosphere and nothing to happen and all these green measures now will take 20 or 30 years to become ingrained. You can't expect the man in the street to ditch his old banger that he uses each day to travel to work for a shiny new hybrid. It's unrealistic.". Humphries at the end of the interview asked, "You sound remarkably upbeat for the certain gloom you predict?", "Well what will happen will happen, I have lesser years left than many other so I plan to enjoy each day for as long as I can".

Now I know that's a potentially provocative comment, and before this thread descends into a smoking / gratuities passionate debate, I thought it was a humerous quip from a profession that has consistently 'told us off' for living the lives we live.

I'll be off to the bomb shelter in the garden. NEXT!

Quote: I thought this thread was about Environmental Pollution.
Not a soapbox for Climate Change deniers.

I don't think anyone is denying climate change, as the experts have been telling us the climate is constantly changing, and has been for thousands of years.

I too live in a town that once had 22 mill chimneys belching smoke, now all gone, and yes the local climate is much better, but the clean up won't make any difference on the world stage.

Countries like China and India are just starting their own industrial revolution, and they don't care a jot about pollution, not to mention the Americans who are also gross polluters.
Cooke of Ashby was only pointing out that without our own very necessary industrial revolution we would not have technologies of iron, steel, and plastics etc, and all the benefits that we have today, and whatever it did to the atmosphere, if anything, it was probably worth it.

My point was, however much tax our government takes off us in the name of green issues, it's not going to save the world.

The technologically advanced countries of the west are moving forwards, our air is clean, and once polluted rivers are now pure, but that's down to progress by local councils, individuals and companies, just like the cruise ship companies who do in general adhere to the agreed rules, as in 30 yrs cruising I haven't seen anything dumped over the side from a cruise ship.

As for eco systems like the Polar Regions, Alaska and the Amazon it's demand that puts pressure on them, and I believe that certain areas of the world should be off limits to humans to protect them forever.

Oh by the way, we don't hear about the hole in the ozone layer nowadays, and I'm told that’s because it's gone, oddly enough it's healed itself.

Hi Propshaft,,O no its not,but its not as big.
Do to the signing of the Montreal Protocol in Jan 1989 banning all manufacture of CFCs + later HCFCs it is expected to be repaired by 2050,by the way almost 200 countries signed up to this Protocol,even China.The last ratification treaty was even held in Bejing.
I can give you root + branch of this treaty as at the time i was meeting Cabinet Ministers to discuss the effect this ban would have on employment.
At the time i worked on producing plants CFC11/12/113/114/115.
After these were all phased out worked on replacements HCFC134a + later HCFC125.
This treaty is having an effect+ is what can be achieved with the Will/Co-operation of the Global community.
Bit heavy but there you go.
JC

Quote: almost 200 countries signed up to this Protocol, even China.

Hi
Yes that’s what we need, " Global Co-operation " unfortunately we will only get it when specific countries think that they can benefit at no cost to themselves, although we can all do our bit to make life better for ourselves locally.
I remember Harold Wilson's government giving some black African state (a lot of money in those days) many hundreds of thousands of pounds, or a few million, I can't remember, it was to make the country more competitive and life better, and they spent it on 1000's of Honda motorbikes, not even English Triumphs.
And that's my point, taxing us with so called "Green Taxes" and giving it to other countries will never work, as all the pigs jump into the trough, and as; has been shown even our own.
Like the Montreal Protocol it's only top-level politics and politicians that will make a difference, and our ministers, including the faceless unallected fops & dandies in the EU, must be made to get off their backsides and get on and do the job.

The chief woman 'Greenie Tree-Hugging Activist',
who was responsible for getting horses banned from National parks and State forests
was climbing a tree to have a look out over the forest
when a Tawny Frogmouth Owl attacked her for invading its nesting site.

In a panic to escape, she slid down the tree
getting a great number of splinters lodged in her crotch area!
In considerable pain she hurried to the nearest doctor
told him she was an environmentalist and how she got all the splinters.

The doctor listened with great patience and then told her to go into the examining room
where he would see if he could help her.

She waited for 3 hours before the doctor reappeared.
Angry, the woman demanded, 'What took you so long?'

'Well...' replied the doctor, '
...I had to get permits from the Environmental Protection Agency; the Forestry Service;
the National Parks and Wildlife Service; the Wilderness Society and the Department of Conservation and Land Management
before I could remove 'old growth timber' from a 'recreational area' . . .

I'm sorry but.. they all turned me down.'
.